Re: Sample Scoring (see links)
 

How about we shorten that to just SAC'D

Re: Sample Scoring (see links)
 

Fine, but what about the scoring?

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

Another comment on the scoring...

Should we not give some sort of credit for Interception and Fumble return yards (they are tracked)?

Maybe something like 0.05/yard (1/2 of what an offensive player gets per yard)

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

I wouldn't be opposed

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

Here's a link showing my 2nd scoring proposal with the additional inclusion of interception and fumble recovery return yards:

http://predsff.com/SAC'D2004DefensiveScoring3.htm

We also should define whether or not the IDP's get credit for offensive scoring (i.e. trick plays, goaline plunges and whatnot). I'd say yes, the same as the IOP would get.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I will weigh in on the scoring issue a bit later. However, on the league name I was wondering if there might be someway to incoprporate Pat Tillman into this. Since he was defensive player and this is an IDP league I thought maybe in the name of the league or else as one of the divisions??

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I agree with Mike. After looking at the scoring. Option 2 is better. Otherwise, the top DL performer (Julius Peppers) scored as much as Plaxico Burress who was #46 WR and below William Green (ranked 40th RB). And Donnie Edwards (#1 overall scorer) scored less than Jason Witten, Lee Suggs, Kurt Warner, & TJ Houskljhhatstydityfgxknbcdah.

I think we'll need another vote on this....

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I'm with on you the Pat Tillman thing. Dang, talk about a man walking the walk!

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I officially have no opinion on the defensive scoring.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

Steve,

I created a 3rd option (post #35) which is my 2nd proposal but also includes points for interception and fumble recovery return yards (0.05 per year).

http://predsff.com/SAC'D2004DefensiveScoring3.htm

Think we should include that as an option in the poll?

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

I like this scoring method the best (using 2pts per 1/2 sack). Also adding the int and fumble return yardage should be an interesting addition.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Syste
 

i don't know about steve, but i think we should include this option as it would get my vote

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

Rats. Missed that post.
Added now. Deleted the one person's vote, since there is a new option they may go for...sorry if you still wanted option 2...please just vote for it again.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

It was my vote, I edited the poll, all is good.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I voted 2, but am fine with 3. Although I think tackle pts may be a bit high (would prefer 1.5 & either .75 or .5 for an assist) but can live with it.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I agree, in general with you, Keepers. However, when you compare the scoring to that of IOP, IDP would be ridiculously low otherwise.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

How would the IOP get points for a defensive play?

I think this needs clarification. It would go both ways, true? If Sapp or Vrabel catches a TD as a TE, does he get the points as technically he would be in a line up as DE/LB or something of the like. Or if Troy Brown catches an INT, do you get the points if he is your WR #3?

I am not sure this should be true, and I have admittedly not scoured the leagelese of the current Frenzy Rules to see if this is addressed. It's one thing if Brees catches a pass from Tomlinson and we give Brees the recept and the yards, but it's another to cross to the other side of the field. Any recommendations since you have probably addressed this in one respect? :?

EDIT: Also, I am down with yardage for returns option (#3), etc, as long as it does not overload one position with too many points. mp

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

I think if we are going to be as detailed with the scoring as we are, we need to allow offensive players to get D points, and D player to get O points. The main offensive player getting D points I can think of is the Keenan McCardell situation. In my mind, if we are doing this as thorough as possible, Keenen needs to have gotten points for that play (let me know if you aren't aware of the play I'm talking about, but if someone doesn't know, we need to reconsider the use of Shark in the league name).

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

You sure you don't mean Troy Brown? Whose the shark?;)

And yes, the scoring should work for both sides IMO.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

Ah hem. No. I mean Keenan McCardell and the infamous "defensive" touchdown he scored last year on the double fumble play (I think it was Monday night, might have been a Sunday night game). It threw most leagues into a tizzy since most scoring systems didn't know how to handle it. Even though McCardell scored the TDs, the NFL ruled it a defensive TD (which IMHO was assine), as TB fubled, their opponent recovered, and fumbled back while returning the fuble. Keenan picks it up and scores.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

Guess I'm not the shark lol... I faintly remember the playm but not much controversy from it, at least not in my leagues.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

I remember this play... they called.. that once the 1st fumble was recovered that the Offense became the defence and they(the new D) caused the next fumble (ala McKardell) and called it a Defensive TD... I guess Mckardell became a DB..
A very rare situation... not the norm..

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I think we should allow for the Vrabel/Sapp offensive TD, etc. And the Troy Brown (and rare McCardell) Defensive play as well. if the system picks up the stats, then it would be assessed correctly. ie: Mike Vrabel gets 2 tackles, 1/2 sack, pass deflected and 1 offensive TD. I don't have the scoring here, but you get the idea.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I agree since it looks like we are giving points for plays on both sides of the ball and some players will play on both sides of the ball (not that there's anything wrong with that) as well as special teams I think it makes sense.

Do we say anywhere in the rules (I am pretty sure we do) that the NFL (or whoever) is the stats provider of record?

Basically, however they record it (including blocked kicks that are noted as blocked in the play by play record but not on the stats sheet) is how we score it.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I believe Mike (Preds) has the system to check if everything we want can be tracked, scored, etc. Mikey, is that right?

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

Uh oh, not the blocked kick issue again.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I think we should probably designate FFLM as the official keeper of stats, they've been VERY reliable over the years.

Stats for IOP/IDP's even in in reversed roles are generally tracked well within FFLM, so scoring both sides of the ball for any player shouldn't be an issue.

As for tracking the stats, there are only 2 stats I'm concerned about, 1 moreso than the other.

I'm somewhat concerned that the Fumble Recovery yards are credited to the player (not the team), I'm gonna have to check with Mike Hall on that. Intereception return yards can be tracked by the player, so that's not an issue.

The bigger issue is the negative stats for negative yards (ex. a WR runs a reverse for -9 yards, and it's his only rushing play of the day, we want him to get -.9 for the negative yards). I haven't figured out a way to accomodate this yet, and will post at FFLM's boards to see if this is possible.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

valid concerns.
will you let us know what you find out?

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Syste
 

Well, after just now checking the FFLM boards, I think I have a solution on the negative yardage, I'll test it in a bit.

I posted on the Fumble Recovery Return yardage. I'll let you know what I find out.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

OK, I've tested the negative yardage solution and it works. So no issue there.

I'll let you know when I get an answer on the fumble recovery yards.