Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

But I have few more issues I want to argue about first...

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Much obliged!! Now it is on to determining the order...

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Yahoo... :thumbsup

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Valencia has voted, and he's voted to keep the rooks in the auction with the Vets.

Mutts and Insects haven't voted, and you've bribed Keepers to switch. I will not change my vote on this. I totally HATE the concept of what you guys are shoving down our throats here, and you can bet I'll bitch about it for YEARS to come ;).

All that being said, I'm likely to lose on this with the Kerry loving liberals flip flopping their votes. In light of that, how about some CREATIVE (that's for you Brian) thinking on the draft order. Using a random generator to decide the order of selection of the DRAFT slots. Still use either Brian's or Matt's overall 1-12 12-1 12-1 whatever orderering, but allows teams to pick their draft slot based on an order of picking generated randomly. Kind of a mini-draft of the draft slots.

Again, despite my creative idea above, I'll continue being on the record against what you're shoving mercilessly down my throat! :furious

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

I had thought of that as well, but I thought it was too convoluted. If it will appease some on the other side of the fence, I have no problem with it. It is still random, and it only increases each teams opportunity to get into a position they like. I have no problems with it. I also have no problem with calling the idea creative, since I agree with it. :D

Mike, it looks like we are going to finish the week 1-1 on things we strongly disagree on.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

You sure it's not 1-0-1... I think the Barlow situation is more of a draw.

By the way, I thought the Kerry flip flop line would generate a few chuckles and comments.... guess not!

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

I like the idea of picking draft slots also.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

I like your idea. I'm down...

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

The beauty of democracy ;-)

I am in a dynasty league that had a random drawing, and then allowed the owners in that drawn order to pick the position they wanted to draft in. That worked well, and I would agree to that.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

I could go for that...of course, if people are truly legalistic, then I get the 12th pick...

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Legalistic people suck!! GB, pop-punkseters MxPx...

I am cool with picking an order and then letting people pick their pick. In this case Keepers gets my number if it is higher than his.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

so, who's going to run the random generator?

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Mike (Preds), should we eliminate this poll then and put a new one?
Draft: 1-12, 12-1, 12-1, 12-1, etc OR 1-12, 12-1, 12-1, 1-12, 12-1, etc?

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

I don't care but if we need to vote I will go with the majority on this one. Also, at some point we need to have names so we can put the draft list together (either that or it will just default to our screen name).

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Don't ask me.. not my show here... I'm just gonna go with the flow and try to swim back upstream on another outlet ;).

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

I have a fantasy site that will randomly assign orders. Everybody gets emailed at the same time.

All I need is an email address for everyone.

FYI... I still am AGAINST this concept.... I'll remind you f'ers of that every few posts! :D

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

K. Just don't pee on that outlet!:eek:

Creating new thread for discussion on draft....

I would also just recommend to put the owner names in the generator...it make take a while for some people to get team names...

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

we have no doubt on this.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

How is Barlow a draw? Unless something changes, things are status quo, meaning you get to keep circumventing the rules. :D

Just be happy your random order for pick selection met a receptive audience, so stop complaining.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Maybe you should do a better job writing FLAWED rules ;)

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

I CANNOT TAKE THIS CONSTANT CRITICISM! I'M OUT! :furious

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Just to make sure no accusations are later made... here's a link to the randomizer sight.

It's great for determining fantasy draft orders. http://www.profantasysports.com/DraftRandomizer.htm

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

LOL :D

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Dang you. I already had my accusatory post drafted.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

For the record: I am AGAINST Mike posting anymore messages stating how AGAINST this proposal he is...:moon:

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

I'll second that.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

I'd be wary of baring your ass around some of the "switch hitters" around here. :D

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Nice

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

D-I- Double T -O

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

It does to me...damn liberal flip-floppin' wearin' and votin' hippies

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Wow. Actually do some work one day and you miss the entire debate. I'm still on the fence as to whether I support a rookie draft at all... but I guess it may not matter at this point. Honestly, if we're going with some kind of serprentine system I lean much further towards going without the rookie draft. I just don't know why we have to introduce the element of luck into this league at all? Anyway you slice it, a serpentine draft with predetermined salaries means a certain part of the SAC'D league will be based upon luck for years to come. With competition as high as I think it will be in this league, having an entirely auction based inaugural draft is a huge deal IMO.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

You know, if we didn't have the flip floppers (Keepers and Skippy), this vote would be 6-5 AGAINST the rookie draft, with the Mutts a possible 7th negative vote (seeing as they are against a serpantine draft structure).

Jake's the only one who hasn't cast his vote, but again, if the flip floppers held firm on their original feelings and Jake came on board this would be 7-5 and could be put to rest.

By the way, have I mentioned in the past 6 hours or so how much I really don't think we should hold a rookie draft this year? ;)

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

You know, this is a really good point. Mike was mostly whining, so I wasn't really paying attention to whether or not he made any valid points other than he was totally AGAINST a draft. But, another point could also be made against having any type of rookie draft ever. Doesn't luck play a part in any season, due to injuries (Steve Smith breaking his leg), stupidity (Rickey's ganja tour) or a player not really what they appear to be (KiJana Carter), and these things affecting a team finish? I still also feel strongly that we should keep things consistant, and not use a different set of rules to begin the league than will be used in coming years. Having an inagural rookie auction would also have a huge impact for years to come, mainly that this years rookie class would have a totally different valuation than subsequent years. This wouls also be a huge deal IMO.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Why are we voting for a serpentine system in the other thread? Unless I'm missing something, a vote from me to do without the rookie draft makes this a 6-6 tie. If we're looking at serprentine, I'm going to go ahead and place that vote. I just don't like the luck factor to any degree. I'll be gone all day today. I'll check back tonight.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Following what Burt wrote, luck has a ton to do with everything. I'm not patting myself on the back, but I took over a team last year that had 1/4 of salary locked in cap hit, 1/4 in ahman green (who under-performed) and went 1-13 the year before. With some strategies and a LOT of luck, I was actually the top seated team in the playoffs (and once again Ahman let me down for making the superbowl). I beat Preds who had been groming his team for several years. Luck - yup, that and some strategy. Super Bowl winners have a strategy, but a lot of luck as well (health of players, match-ups, catching the right break-out game, etc).
So, if you all want to :bitch& :rant about being unlucky because you picked 9th instead of 3rd....go home and :crying:. Yes, I mean to sound a bit harse, but this is a game of luck. I could have easily ended up losing in the Toilet Bowl. Point is, I had fun playing. To beat the dead horse that you all keep forcing me back to, It's a GAME and we're supposed to have fun. There are things that I won't want, but we're all grown men - live with it.
I guess the bottom line question I am posing is: Do you want to look at the 'luck' aspect of the game as a challenge and see how good you are (compared to how good you think you are) or do you want to wallow in weakness and cry victim? You're to think about.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Skippy changed his vote, but Mike didn't switch the poll. So it's actually 7-5 in favor of rookie draft.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

We had one of the no's change their mind and move to yes. That made it 7-4 prior to you vote which now makes it 7-5.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

I'll repeat what I said in the other Rookie thread. This poll is flawed IMO.

You coerced 2 teams to flip flop their stances before all the votes could be counted, and I contend they should be able to consider flipping back in light of the fact that their intentions were originally against the rookie draft but they flipped because they saw it as a losing battle (which it wasn't) or took a small bribe.

This was like the f'n presidential election, the folks in favor of the draft were calling a win before they counted all the votes, and thus swayed public opinion.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

How did we coerce? I think that might be a little harsh. As for the vote counting I think those two teams like most of the folks here are willing to do what they can for the good of the league. Since we seemed to be locked up they stepped up so we could move it along. I would have to hope that no one felt coerced!

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

I see that Mike switch the poll back as well...

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

But it wasn't locked up, had they stood firm and all of the votes been cast it would have been 7-5 agaionst, but you convinced them to switch in light of a potential losing effort before all 12 votes were cast.

Additionally, I don't no how you can as me how Keeper's wan't coerced even a little bit by your open offer to swap draft positions with the 1st guy who switched votes to your side.

If that isn't coersion, WTF is?

FYI, I edited the poll back to the way the votes were actually cast. We can debate the 2 flip flops, but the actual votes were 7-5 against before 2 flipped.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

That's coercion but telling a guy they need to give you a draft pick or you are going to match their high bid on your RFA isn't? Can you tell me what dictionary you use to define the words you use so I can be on the same page with you?

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Let's not bring the Frenzy Barlow debate into this or we're going to get way off topic. If you want to talk about this hijack some more contact me via Instant Message.

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

I think you may have the wrong word in mind. Coerce means to restrain or dominate by force. There was no force applied. In fact quite the opposite I made an offer that would lessen someone's fears about moving forward. Now I am not ready to call myself a hero :) but I certainly did not coerce anyone!!

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Any flip floppers want to flip flop back to their original stance or flip flop to the other stance of no rookie draft this year?

<bribe>Guinness</bribe> :IconDrink

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Would you prefer bribe or influence? ;)

To be honest at this point I really don't give a f***, but let's call it what it was. You convinced 2 folks to change their votes before all the votes were cast, partially by a "bribe" "influance" whatever you wanna call it, partially to shut me up lol.

I'll shut up and keep playing along, I have a tendancy to dig in and battle from the trenches just like a few others, unfortunatly my words can be taken more harshly as I'm not quite as poetic. The reality is though, it's a friggin game and it doesn't really matter.

Half of what I say is sarcasm, the other half to stir up shit, but I'll always put up a fight when challenged! Maybe my SAC'D team will be the PITBULLS

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

In this case either would do but bribe sounds dirty so let's go with influence!! ;)

Re: IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure
 

Happened upon another site with the pick value chart (have not validated it but here it is): http://www.profootballdraft.com/draftchart.php