Cap considerations
 

film at 11

Re: Cap considerations
 

10,500 is the current frenzy number but with 10 more players it seems like it should go up to $16,500.

Re: Cap considerations
 

Actually I believe 17,500 is the number we've thrown out there for 30 man rosters (18 O, 12 D).

17,500 is right in line with the average salary we've paid out in the past.

Re: Cap considerations
 

I'll take your word on it.

Re: Cap considerations
 

17,500 sound good to me.

unless you want to go with some arbitrary number so those frenzy guys dont have an advantage over us non frenzy guys

Re: Cap considerations
 

You are right my calculator must have been broken before. BTW, this is open to any positions right. We don't have to spend a minimum on IDP's do we?

Re: Cap considerations
 

Yah that was my concern.... maybe something smaller than 1750 b/c i doubt anyone would spend an average of 600 per DEF player.

Re: Cap considerations
 

but like i said... wouldn''t matter so much since we're all on equal footing. Would be a concern if we were adding onto the original Frenzy.

Re: Cap considerations
 

And in that regard us Frenzy people dont have any advantage over you non-Frenzy people b/c we're all starting brand new. We set our owm market values and since we have a whole new market... the value should be different than Frenzy.

Re: Cap considerations
 

Agreed. So if we want to make it a nice round number we could.

Re: Cap considerations
 

After thinking about it (and running a VBD application) this totally changes players values. I originall proposed 17,500 since it was the same average salary for the Frenzy, but in reality the players values are going to change big time. If that's the case, then we might as well go with a round number of 20,000 or 30,000. 17,500 makes no sense to me now since the values are going to change.

If we want to keep the values the same as in the Frenzy, then we should go with something more like 15,000 (since from what I can tell, IDPs are much cheaper).

Re: Cap considerations
 

yeah, but the rest of us need an attorney to understand your rules and scoring system...

Actually, you would be surprised how much some people would bet (pay) for certain IDP. There will be some pretty big $$$ being thrown around. Especially for elite DL because there aren't a TON of them.

Re: Cap considerations
 

Does the cap really matter at this point. A larger cap will just drive up the value of the better players. Why not just start with 17,500 this year, and since we are only keeping players one year the first year, we can always adjust it next year.

Re: Cap considerations
 

Whatever. Just pick a number and tell me what it is. Everything is basically a % of that.

Re: Cap considerations
 

15,000 is fine. I like the rounder numbers...

Re: Cap considerations
 

I'm gonna continue to advocate 17,500.

IDP's will have similar values as IOP's. Especially if we're creative in the scoring. You will see top IDP's with 1500+ contracts. You may not think it now, but it'll happen. Especially at LB.

Re: Cap considerations
 

1500+ sure, but multiple ones over 3000+?

I really have no idea what the scale is going to look like. I think it's going to be impossible to find a scale that would keep current Frenzy prices anaogous, so any number is fine.

Re: Cap considerations
 

yah any number would we cool with me as well

Re: Cap considerations
 

What the heck does this word mean (and yes I get the gist from the context) but don't believe I have ever seen this word before.

Re: Cap considerations
 

That's cause I think i just made it up. I meant to type analogous.

Re: Cap considerations
 

Preds, my quote from earlier

Re: Cap considerations
 

I don't see where it was used, but I am guessing a misspelling and they really meant

analogous
1 : showing an analogy or a likeness that permits one to draw an analogy
2 : being or related to as an analogue

Re: Cap considerations
 

whatever....we're all playing with the same cap

Re: Cap considerations
 

yup

Re: Cap considerations
 

To make this official, I'm putting a poll on this.
If there is not a majority for any one choice, then, I will choose top two and re-poll.
This will be open for 1 week.

Re: Cap considerations
 

I went with 17,500 but I really don't think it matters.

Re: Cap considerations
 

Ditto, I really should have abstained.

Re: Cap considerations
 

I will abstain as don't think it matters. However would comment that if doesn't matter why a ..500 number and not a round number.

Re: Cap considerations
 

In light of the proposed increase in IDP scoring (which appears tohave passed), I think the 17,500 cap is perfect.

Why?

Because your top LB's and DB's will score around the same as your top WR's. And your top DL's will be in line with the TE's.

I think Keeping the cap within the same average range of the Frenzy makes sense in that player valuations (on offense at least) should generally remain the same, meaning everyone can use the 4 years of salary history from the Frenzy as a guage for SAC'D.

The average salary of just ~600 seems about right to me.

Re: Cap considerations
 

I see no reason not to just put it at 20000. Why not start with a nice round #?

You are adding so many new variables to this league (including new owners that have different ideas about value and salaries) that I doubt salary history will provide much use.

One other reason to move it to 20k for those of you in both leagues. Lets say the same player is up for bid in both leagues. You happen are bidding on the player in both league and in one he reaches your max and you cut out of the bidding. You basically just told everyone in the other league where you value that player and how high you will go. Not that I will mind. Any time a player is up for bid in this league, I will be scowering the other league for team's bidding history to get whatever info I can from that.

Anyway, in light of the fact that several owners have stated that they are going to abstain, we may need to have another vote or at least force the remaining two people to vote.

Re: Cap considerations
 

I have only seen one abstain (keepers), though I didn't see a vote by randilover. Mutts and Dodgers both voted for 17,500, but stated they really didn't care. Swords and Insects also both stated they didn't care since we all use the same cap either way.
Mike, I understand your position. I think it would be helpful for the Frenzy folk playing here to use information (that is similar) moreso than those of us who don't. I know I have access (and have looked) at the Frenzy page for where people salaries are set at (roughly). But, what we don't have is the history - who bid on whom (who's a homer for certain teams), how much is this player overvalued in Frenzy, etc.
I think that 20,000 definitely has us on a more level playing field. No one has any advance background. We all bid to where the market allows (right or wrong). That's the name of the game.

I am asking Randilover and Keepers to vote. If there is no majority. I will update the poll and see if there are any changes in opinions.

Re: Cap considerations
 

Sorry to do it, but I drew the tie. :bag The above made sense to me. Level playing fields are good.

Re: Cap considerations
 

Poll reset.
Once again, we're going to vote on this. If we're in a tie again we'll have to figure something out.
Thanks for the patience.

Re: Cap considerations
 

won't let me vote...says i've already voted in this poll even though a view results shows no votes

....but then again you probably already know this

Re: Cap considerations
 

same here...cant vote

Re: Cap considerations
 

Ditto :Banghead

Re: Cap considerations
 

Me either...:retard

Re: Cap considerations
 

Rami,

on the re-vote you should start a new thread.

I noticed ths earlier when you cleared out the other poll. The poll reads this as already voted, and if I were to pull it up in the Admin panel I could see exactly who.

You can edit the options, or change 1 vote to another (that has already been cast), but you can't zero it out completely.

Re: Cap considerations
 

Another reason not to change from the current Frenzy scale of ~583 per player (17,500) is that if we do go with 20,000, it means we'll have to rework all the formulas and numbers for the rookie draft that we already have established for IOP's, as well as the entire bonus structure, and of course the RFA tenders and compensation we have in place already will have to be adjusted as well, That's a lot of work IMO (work we did over the first 3 years in the Frenzy to get it right (or close to right).

As for the comments on an even playing field, yes, the Frenzy guys will have a decent understanding of the player valuations, but at the same time, our bidding and rosters in the Frenzy for the past 4 years as well as the current season are an open book. As Skip so abtly noted, SAC'D teams will be able to jump right over to the Frenzy boards to see who's selling for what, and who's overpaying / underpaying a guy. What some of our ceilings are, who we like in the draft, etc. The playing field will be leveled in may ways as a result...

Re: Cap considerations
 

I still disagree that a 17,500 won't affect the top player prices, and I stronly disagree that the 12 defensive players added will average 583 per player. Of course I could be wrong, but if say the IDPs only average 350-400 per player (or less) the current bonuses and rookie salary levels will need adjusting anyways. I would think we would want to look at all of that after at least the intial season, if not after the first couple to make sure everything is in sync.

Re: Cap considerations
 

I pointed this out in another thread but the rookie draft values and bonuses need to be redone reguardless of the cap. We are adding 2 rounds to the draft and more importantly a lot of talent to the pool. We will need to flatten out the curve or there will be a bunch of players going for the min value at the end of the draft that shouldn;t be.

Re: Cap considerations
 

Sorry, guys. Didn't know I couldn't clear the poll. I will set up new thread.

Mike, so is your main concern the time and energy for setting up the new numbers? I tend to agree with Skippy that we would need to adapt it anyway since we are adding two new rounds of picks (otherwise we will have about 3 1/2 rounds of everybody getting $1 mil [whatever the cb amount is] base salary for rookie draft). And, if we do not have the rookie draft this year, as you have requested, that gives us a full year to work out the bugs and take the time to get it close to where you like it.

Re: Cap considerations
 

Alright, I'll concede and join the dark side, giving a majority to the pretty round number of 20,000!

Brian, make sure we have it in the rules that the RFA Tendersand Rookie Draft numbers will be adjusted after 1 season's worth of data, and possibly a 2nd time a year later if it's needed. It looks like we're gonna be pretty busy in January and February getting things ready for the RFA period and rookie draft next year, but it should be fun figuring out.

Re: Cap considerations
 

No revote is necessary, I'll change mine to give a majority of 20,000.

Re: Cap considerations
 

too late...already created the other poll.

wondering how that changed when I came back to this thread...

Re: Cap considerations
 

Preds, besides, we usually pick our noses in Jan/Feb waiting for something to happen anyway!

Re: Cap considerations
 

I'll delete the other poll. No biggie. This issue is set :D

Re: Cap considerations
 

Tasty

Re: Cap considerations
 

I don't think it will be too much work. We'll have good precedents from the Frenzy, and we can do a simple compare to salary levels in SACD. Add a little tweaking, and presto.