Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)

[Liquid Swords]

Originally Posted by Preds

Here's a link showing my 2nd scoring proposal with the additional inclusion of interception and fumble recovery return yards:

http://predsff.com/SAC'D2004DefensiveScoring3.htm

We also should define whether or not the IDP's get credit for offensive scoring (i.e. trick plays, goaline plunges and whatnot). I'd say yes, the same as the IOP would get.

I like this scoring method the best (using 2pts per 1/2 sack). Also adding the int and fumble return yardage should be an interesting addition.

[Liquid Swords]

Originally Posted by Preds

Steve,

I created a 3rd option (post #35) which is my 2nd proposal but also includes points for interception and fumble recovery return yards (0.05 per year).

http://predsff.com/SAC'D2004DefensiveScoring3.htm

Think we should include that as an option in the poll?

i don't know about steve, but i think we should include this option as it would get my vote

[The Immortal Ramirez]

Rats. Missed that post.
Added now. Deleted the one person's vote, since there is a new option they may go for...sorry if you still wanted option 2...please just vote for it again.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by The Immortal Ramirez

Rats. Missed that post.
Added now. Deleted the one person's vote, since there is a new option they may go for...sorry if you still wanted option 2...please just vote for it again.

It was my vote, I edited the poll, all is good.

[keepers]

I voted 2, but am fine with 3. Although I think tackle pts may be a bit high (would prefer 1.5 & either .75 or .5 for an assist) but can live with it.

[The Immortal Ramirez]

I agree, in general with you, Keepers. However, when you compare the scoring to that of IOP, IDP would be ridiculously low otherwise.

[randilover]

Originally Posted by Preds

We also should define whether or not the IDP's get credit for offensive scoring (i.e. trick plays, goaline plunges and whatnot). I'd say yes, the same as the IOP would get.

How would the IOP get points for a defensive play?

I think this needs clarification. It would go both ways, true? If Sapp or Vrabel catches a TD as a TE, does he get the points as technically he would be in a line up as DE/LB or something of the like. Or if Troy Brown catches an INT, do you get the points if he is your WR #3?

I am not sure this should be true, and I have admittedly not scoured the leagelese of the current Frenzy Rules to see if this is addressed. It's one thing if Brees catches a pass from Tomlinson and we give Brees the recept and the yards, but it's another to cross to the other side of the field. Any recommendations since you have probably addressed this in one respect? :?

EDIT: Also, I am down with yardage for returns option (#3), etc, as long as it does not overload one position with too many points. mp

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by randilover

How would the IOP get points for a defensive play?

I think this needs clarification. It would go both ways, true? If Sapp or Vrabel catches a TD as a TE, does he get the points as technically he would be in a line up as DE/LB or something of the like. Or if Troy Brown catches an INT, do you get the points if he is your WR #3?

I am not sure this should be true, and I have admittedly not scoured the leagelese of the current Frenzy Rules to see if this is addressed. It's one thing if Brees catches a pass from Tomlinson and we give Brees the recept and the yards, but it's another to cross to the other side of the field. Any recommendations since you have probably addressed this in one respect? :?

EDIT: Also, I am down with yardage for returns option (#3), etc, as long as it does not overload one position with too many points. mp

I think if we are going to be as detailed with the scoring as we are, we need to allow offensive players to get D points, and D player to get O points. The main offensive player getting D points I can think of is the Keenan McCardell situation. In my mind, if we are doing this as thorough as possible, Keenen needs to have gotten points for that play (let me know if you aren't aware of the play I'm talking about, but if someone doesn't know, we need to reconsider the use of Shark in the league name).

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

I think if we are going to be as detailed with the scoring as we are, we need to allow offensive players to get D points, and D player to get O points. The main offensive player getting D points I can think of is the Keenan McCardell situation. In my mind, if we are doing this as thorough as possible, Keenen needs to have gotten points for that play (let me know if you aren't aware of the play I'm talking about, but if someone doesn't know, we need to reconsider the use of Shark in the league name).

You sure you don't mean Troy Brown? Whose the shark?;)

And yes, the scoring should work for both sides IMO.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Preds

You sure you don't mean Troy Brown? Whose the shark?;)

And yes, the scoring should work for both sides IMO.

Ah hem. No. I mean Keenan McCardell and the infamous "defensive" touchdown he scored last year on the double fumble play (I think it was Monday night, might have been a Sunday night game). It threw most leagues into a tizzy since most scoring systems didn't know how to handle it. Even though McCardell scored the TDs, the NFL ruled it a defensive TD (which IMHO was assine), as TB fubled, their opponent recovered, and fumbled back while returning the fuble. Keenan picks it up and scores.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Ah hem. No. I mean Keenan McCardell and the infamous "defensive" touchdown he scored last year on the double fumble play (I think it was Monday night, might have been a Sunday night game). It threw most leagues into a tizzy since most scoring systems didn't know how to handle it. Even though McCardell scored the TDs, the NFL ruled it a defensive TD (which IMHO was assine), as TB fubled, their opponent recovered, and fumbled back while returning the fuble. Keenan picks it up and scores.

Guess I'm not the shark lol... I faintly remember the playm but not much controversy from it, at least not in my leagues.

[Valencia]

Originally Posted by Preds

Guess I'm not the shark lol... I faintly remember the playm but not much controversy from it, at least not in my leagues.

I remember this play... they called.. that once the 1st fumble was recovered that the Offense became the defence and they(the new D) caused the next fumble (ala McKardell) and called it a Defensive TD... I guess Mckardell became a DB..
A very rare situation... not the norm..

[The Immortal Ramirez]

I think we should allow for the Vrabel/Sapp offensive TD, etc. And the Troy Brown (and rare McCardell) Defensive play as well. if the system picks up the stats, then it would be assessed correctly. ie: Mike Vrabel gets 2 tackles, 1/2 sack, pass deflected and 1 offensive TD. I don't have the scoring here, but you get the idea.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

I agree since it looks like we are giving points for plays on both sides of the ball and some players will play on both sides of the ball (not that there's anything wrong with that) as well as special teams I think it makes sense.

Do we say anywhere in the rules (I am pretty sure we do) that the NFL (or whoever) is the stats provider of record?

Basically, however they record it (including blocked kicks that are noted as blocked in the play by play record but not on the stats sheet) is how we score it.

Punt/Kickoff Return TDs: 6pts
Fumble Recovery/Interception Return TDs: 6pts
Blocked FG/Punt Return TDs: 6pts
Fumble Recoveries: 4pts
Interceptions Caught: 4pts
Blocked FG/Punt: 4pts
Tackles: 1pt
Assists: 0.5pt
QB Sack: 4pts
Safeties: 6pts

[The Immortal Ramirez]

I believe Mike (Preds) has the system to check if everything we want can be tracked, scored, etc. Mikey, is that right?

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Freedom

I agree since it looks like we are giving points for plays on both sides of the ball and some players will play on both sides of the ball (not that there's anything wrong with that) as well as special teams I think it makes sense.

Do we say anywhere in the rules (I am pretty sure we do) that the NFL (or whoever) is the stats provider of record?

Basically, however they record it (including blocked kicks that are noted as blocked in the play by play record but not on the stats sheet) is how we score it.

Uh oh, not the blocked kick issue again.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Freedom

I agree since it looks like we are giving points for plays on both sides of the ball and some players will play on both sides of the ball (not that there's anything wrong with that) as well as special teams I think it makes sense.

Do we say anywhere in the rules (I am pretty sure we do) that the NFL (or whoever) is the stats provider of record?

Basically, however they record it (including blocked kicks that are noted as blocked in the play by play record but not on the stats sheet) is how we score it.

I think we should probably designate FFLM as the official keeper of stats, they've been VERY reliable over the years.

Stats for IOP/IDP's even in in reversed roles are generally tracked well within FFLM, so scoring both sides of the ball for any player shouldn't be an issue.

As for tracking the stats, there are only 2 stats I'm concerned about, 1 moreso than the other.

I'm somewhat concerned that the Fumble Recovery yards are credited to the player (not the team), I'm gonna have to check with Mike Hall on that. Intereception return yards can be tracked by the player, so that's not an issue.

The bigger issue is the negative stats for negative yards (ex. a WR runs a reverse for -9 yards, and it's his only rushing play of the day, we want him to get -.9 for the negative yards). I haven't figured out a way to accomodate this yet, and will post at FFLM's boards to see if this is possible.

[The Immortal Ramirez]

valid concerns.
will you let us know what you find out?

[Preds]

Originally Posted by The Immortal Ramirez

valid concerns.
will you let us know what you find out?

Well, after just now checking the FFLM boards, I think I have a solution on the negative yardage, I'll test it in a bit.

I posted on the Fumble Recovery Return yardage. I'll let you know what I find out.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by The Immortal Ramirez

valid concerns.
will you let us know what you find out?

OK, I've tested the negative yardage solution and it works. So no issue there.

I'll let you know when I get an answer on the fumble recovery yards.