Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!

[emerald]

On May 13th MFL changed the lineup designation of a lot of DL and LB’s.
Check your rosters and make adjustments as needed.

Surprise!!!

[wchmego]

WOW!

[A Zombie Pirate I Be]

The question is....
What is the source of truth for Player Positions.
According to the Rules, the NFL Roster is the source, so would we need to correct MFL?
6G. Starting Position

Players can only be inserted into a starting line-up at a position for which they are listed on their NFL teams depth chart.

How does MFL positions get updated?

[Burt the Butcher]

Here are a couple threads we discussed this. At one point we said we were using Rotoworld Depth Charts, since MFL did, but then they changed what they use
http://predsff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26959
http://www.predsff.com/forums/showth...light=position

Since its more work for me to change MFL, I would prefer we just go with what MFL has them listed as, at least prior to the start of the season, as MFL will change it until the season starts. Once season starts, if a player changes positions, then that will not be updated, and it is up to me to manually change it.

[A Zombie Pirate I Be]

So, even if MFL has the position possibly stated incorrect, we will wait for the end of the offseason to make correction on MFL.
Example Danielle Hunter Min is listed as LB on MFL (and Fantasy Sharks), but Rotoworld, NFL.com, ESPN.com, and his previous year show him as DE.

I'm good with waiting, but when the season starts, where do we look to the accurate position, if we need/want an update on a position.

[Liquid Swords]

So it looks like MFL may still be using Fantasy Sharks for player positions. I'll see if I can get an answer from them on how they determine player positions

[Liquid Swords]

Well...I registered for Fantasy Sharks and tried to post a message in forums...but it won't let me post a message. It let's me fill out message and click on button to post, but then I don't see the post. Maybe if someone here can reach out to MFL we can get a response?

Here's message I was trying to post. Feel free to improve upon it.

Multiple DL to LB Position Changes Reflected on MFL

We are noticing multiple position changes on MFL especially DL to LB. Does anyone know the reasoning behind these changes? Are they purely speculation at this point (e.g. Danielle Hunter moving to LB due to expected 3-4 scheme change)? Is there a specific date prior to start of 2022 season that we can expect these position changes to be set in stone for MFL (after which we'd have to manually make any MFL position changes in-season like with Cordarrelle Patterson - WR to RB - last season)? Thank you in advance for any insight.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

Well...I registered for Fantasy Sharks and tried to post a message in forums...but it won't let me post a message. It let's me fill out message and click on button to post, but then I don't see the post. Maybe if someone here can reach out to MFL we can get a response?

Here's message I was trying to post. Feel free to improve upon it.

Multiple DL to LB Position Changes Reflected on MFL

We are noticing multiple position changes on MFL especially DL to LB. Does anyone know the reasoning behind these changes? Are they purely speculation at this point (e.g. Danielle Hunter moving to LB due to expected 3-4 scheme change)? Is there a specific date prior to start of 2022 season that we can expect these position changes to be set in stone for MFL (after which we'd have to manually make any MFL position changes in-season like with Cordarrelle Patterson - WR to RB - last season)? Thank you in advance for any insight.

I'll do it Pat, and post reply here.

[Preds]

The whole DE / LB / Edge debate is getting ridiculous.

I see is showing DE Jaelen Phillips and DE K'lavon Chaisson as LB's now with these changes. They were drafted as defensive line Edge Rushers, not LB, and have far less value as a LB IMO (heck they barely have DL value as is).

I'm wondering if we should consider following the Edge trend that most NFL teams have adopted (at least in terms of what how they draft) and change things up to combine DE and OLB's as new Edge position and set that position to have 1 starter. DL would consist only of interior DTs, of which we'd start 1. LB would be changed to include WLB, SLB and MLB of which we would start 2, and finally our DBs would remain as is and we'd start 2.

Still starting 6 defensive players, but combining DE and OLB into the Edge position, and removing OLBs (who generally play in 3-4 systems) from the LB position and have LB consisting only of players designated as WLB, ILB, and WLB's?

Defensive Lineups would be: 1 DT, 1 Edge, 2 ILB, 2DB.

Of course then there are also hybrid DB/LB players as well, but they're not as significant an issue as the whole DE/LB/Edge issue.

[Liquid Swords]

Interesting but why start 12 IDPs? We'd have to significantly expand our IDP roster spots and probably cap. Why not stick with currently starting 6 IDPs? Maybe 1 DT, 1 Edge, 2 LB and 2 DB?

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

Interesting but why start 12 IDPs? We'd have to significantly expand our IDP roster spots and probably cap. Why not stick with currently starting 6 IDPs? Maybe 1 DT, 1 Edge, 2 LB and 2 DB?

Oops, I was thinking about how we have a total of 12 Defensive players and forgetting we only start 6. Yes 1 DL, 1 Edge, 2 ILB, 2 DB would be best.

FYI I edited my original post as by no means was I thinking of doubling the starting lineups!

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Preds

Oops, I was thinking about how we have a total of 12 Defensive players and forgetting we only start 6. Yes 1 DL, 1 Edge, 2 IL, 2 DB would be best.

no, we start 2 of each - always have since beginning...12 is the max active IDP

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Preds

Oops, I was thinking about how we have a total of 12 Defensive players and forgetting we only start 6. Yes 1 DL, 1 Edge, 2 IL, 2 DB would be best.

Getting old is a bitch, ain't it?

[Liquid Swords]

Question is...would MFL/FantasySharks be able to even support this? I see they separate DE and DT, but they don't separate LB as far as I can see.

[Preds]

Not sure if MFL can handle it unless we manually set the positions each year based on NFL depth charts, which could be a .

An alternative we could do is use flex lineups and let MFL define positions as is and start 1 DL, 2 LB, 2DB and 1 LB/DB flex? That said, this may make LB's more valuable which isn't ideal.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Getting old is a bitch, ain't it?

No doubt!

[A Zombie Pirate I Be]

Since I am new to IDP and not sure of IDP player values (as is evident from some of my offseason moves), I am pretty much good with whatever you old timers decide.

But as we move through RFA and into the draft in a couple weeks, it would be good to have some direction on how to build the defensive side of a team.

Do we
1) Put something out for a vote
2) Decide on a source of truth for positions
3) Let the League Committee lead us to the promise land with a wise decision

As mentioned, I'm good with whatever direction the old guys take us.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by A Zombie Pirate I Be

Since I am new to IDP and not sure of IDP player values (as is evident from some of my offseason moves), I am pretty much good with whatever you old timers decide.

But as we move through RFA and into the draft in a couple weeks, it would be good to have some direction on how to build the defensive side of a team.

Do we
1) Put something out for a vote
2) Decide on a source of truth for positions
3) Let the League Committee lead us to the promise land with a wise decision

As mentioned, I'm good with whatever direction the old guys take us.

Pretty sure we decided to use NFL.com depth charts, as a guide. But we do not manually change positions until after the season starts...to use Mike's favorite term, kind of a Pita.

Let's see what MFL says about why the deluge of changes, then we can discuss this further if we want to change how we handle it.

I am in same boat with Maxx Crosby...did not notice they changed him to a LB...not sure I would have matched, but seeing Raiders depth chart, he is still listed as a DL...so who know WFT is going on....

[Burt the Butcher]

Here is MFL's response to Pat's question:
"Yes, see below for general guidance on this. We generally make position changes in the off-season about once a month based on anticipated formations for each NFL team. The last set of changes will be sometime in August, after which point you would have to manually change any players that you need or want to change for your league.

Thanks
Mike

This question is answered in our Help Center, which you can access from the "Help > Help Center" menu, in the "Players & Lineups" > "NFL Players" subcategory:

Why is a player listed at the wrong position? Or, what happens if a player changes the position he plays during the season?

Player positions are updated periodically during the preseason from the depth charts at FantasySharks.com. Once the regular season starts, we no longer make player position changes. Your league commissioner can change a player's position if needed by using the For Commissioners > Setup > Players and Rosters > Change Player Position option.

You can review the player position changes that have been made during the preseason on the "Help > What's New" menu item under the Player Position Changes link."

So I think we roll with it until the season starts? Not really sure what else we can do. Most of us seems to have been affected by this. Maybe new rules that if MFL changes player position in same off season as player was acquired, can cut said player free of charge?

[Liquid Swords]

Yeah, I think we have to roll with it until the season starts.

I do like the idea of cutting a player free of charge if acquired in off-season (RFA or UFA) and player changes position. What do others think?

[wchmego]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

Yeah, I think we have to roll with it until the season starts.

I do like the idea of cutting a player free of charge if acquired in off-season (RFA or UFA) and player changes position. What do others think?

Maybe cut at a discount, like 10%.

[A Zombie Pirate I Be]

Originally Posted by wchmego

Maybe cut at a discount, like 10%.

[A Zombie Pirate I Be]

Still need to know what site we will sue to determine position.
Fantasy Sharks, Rotoworld, NFL.com, ESPN.com.

Burt indicated above that previously, NFL.com was the site to use.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

So I think we roll with it until the season starts? Not really sure what else we can do. Most of us seems to have been affected by this. Maybe new rules that if MFL changes player position in same off season as player was acquired, can cut said player free of charge?

If the league is going to consider something like this, I think it should apply to drafted players too. The valuation for drafting a player as DB, LB and DL can have a significant impact if their position gets switched.

[emerald]

This is a discussion on footballguys about this issue in IDP forum...

https://forums.footballguys.com/topi...true-position/

[A Zombie Pirate I Be]

Originally Posted by Preds

If the league is going to consider something like this, I think it should apply to drafted players too. The valuation for drafting a player as DB, LB and DL can have a significant impact if their position gets switched.

Not sure what is meant by the above.
Drafted players can be cut without penalty if cut in same off-season.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by A Zombie Pirate I Be

Not sure what is meant by the above.
Drafted players can be cut without penalty if cut in same off-season.

Not if they've been active at some point.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by emerald

This is a discussion on footballguys about this issue in IDP forum...

https://forums.footballguys.com/topi...true-position/

The True Position concept which is supposedly based on snap count makes sense. There is a link in that FBG discussion to a tool that will automatically update MFL.

FWIW, both of our DL that MFL is now calling LB were DE based on snapcount in 2021 according to the tool referenced in that FBG link.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Preds

The True Position concept which is supposedly based on snap count makes sense. There is a link in that FBG discussion to a tool that will automatically update MFL.

FWIW, both of our DL that MFL is now calling LB were DE based on snapcount in 2021 according to the tool referenced in that FBG link.

I am fine with that, if someone wants to take ownership of running it, and letting me know which changes to make during the season.

Someone should probably create a poll or two to make sure the league is in agreement

[pacificscrub]

I'm also fine with allowing newly acquired players to be cut with no penalty due to MFL position change (they got me too).

I would also be in favor of the True Position concept based on snap counts. That seems both more accurate and fairer than MFL's arbitrary assignment of positions.