Players changing positions

[Liquid Swords]

So I was interested in finding out how MFL handles position changes for players like Jadeveon Clowney (LB to DL) and more recently Ty Montgomery (WR to RB). Here's how MFL addresses this question:

Can Ty Montgomery be listed as a RB instead of a WR?

Answer: Yes, the commissioner can use the For Commissioners > Setup > Players and Rosters > Change Player Position screen to change the position for any player as needed or desired for your league. After a player position is changed, the player will only receive fantasy points based on the scoring rules defined for his new position.

For some background on the player positions, there isn't any way to designate a player at a "dual position", so each player is listed within MFL at a single position. We use the Rotoworld.com Depth Charts as our official source for all player positions at the beginning of the season. Then after the season starts, we generally don't make site-wide position changes, so it is up to your league commissioner to decide how to handle any player position changes after the season starts.

Regardless of how Rotoworld.com has a player position listed, the commissioner can use the above Change Player Position option to over-ride any player's position.

In addition, if you wish to allow your owners to be able to change the player's position, you can enable the option "Allow owners to change the position of these players back and forth between the MyFantasyLeague.com default position and your custom position" on the Change Player Position screen. Then after that is done, the owners will be able to use the For Owners Change My Player Position option to adjust the position of their player each week as needed.

Source: http://www03.myfantasyleague.com/2016/support


So based off of that answer, it would be up to us on how we determine a position change. I have a few ideas that we could discuss for next season:

1. Allow owner to request change, but owner can only change that player's position once. Once changed the player remains at that position for the rest of the year.

2. Once more than 50% of games played (minimum 5 games) are played at the new position, we automatically change the player's position (or similar to first option - owner can request change)

3. Do nothing. Once player starts season at one position, he remains at that position for the remainder of the year.

Any other thoughts?

[Liquid Swords]

Mike brought up a good point in Frenzy:

Originally Posted by Preds

Based on the way the rules are written, the position has to be in line with the NFL teams depth chart. Montgomery was recently moved to RB by the Packers thus can only start as a RB. If he's officially moved back to WR he then can only be used as a WR. IMO it's a move that gets made whenever the NFL team officially makes the change with their depth charts.

So that means that we need to change Ty Montgomery's position to RB and Jadeveon Clowney's position to DL as outlined in the MFL answer above.

Does anyone know of any other position changes that have occurred this season?

[Liquid Swords]

Ty Montgomery is still listed as WR on Packers depth chart (http://www.packers.com/team/depth-chart.html)

Jadeveon Clowney is listed as DE on Texans depth chart (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/depth-chart.html) - please change this in MFL

[pacificscrub]

I agree with the above, but it bears mentioning that a number of other sites have officially changed Montgomery's designation to RB on their sites.

[Bounty Hunter]

We have this from a few years ago.

http://predsff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15655

Seems like following this would reduce/keep the commish work load the same as it is now.

[Liquid Swords]

Originally Posted by Bounty Hunter

We have this from a few years ago.

http://predsff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15655

Seems like following this would reduce/keep the commish work load the same as it is now.

Correct, but if you read the message from MFL, it is up to our commissioner/league admin to change the designation.

[Bounty Hunter]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

Correct, but if you read the message from MFL, it is up to our commissioner/league admin to change the designation.

I read it as going with what is on MFL.

[Liquid Swords]

Well, we need a ruling on this as this affects my starting lineup this week.

[Liquid Swords]

Originally Posted by Bounty Hunter

We have this from a few years ago.

http://predsff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15655

Seems like following this would reduce/keep the commish work load the same as it is now.

Also, note that this all related to position changes from the prior season to the current season, not position changes during the season, which is the case with Clowney and Montgomery

[Preds]

IMO Frenzy and SACD Should be using rotoworld's depth charts for in-season position changes. We've always followed MFLs positional assignments and they use rotoworld.

[Liquid Swords]

Jadeveon Clowney is listed as DL everywhere (e.g., Rotoworld, HoustonTexans.com, NFL.com, ESPN.com).

Ty Montgomery is a bit of a question mark (listed at WR and RB depending on source). Frenzy just ruled that he will stay as WR for this week, but further clarification needed.

[Burt the Butcher]

Sorry guys I have had limited access this week. I will have to read over the rules, but I don't recall having to go in and manually change positions before, so first pad I would say we stay with what mfl allows automatically. Manual change mid-season I think would need to go to a vote for rule change

[Liquid Swords]

Be sure to check out discussion in Frenzy as well. We've dealt with changes from one season to the next, but this year is the first instance where we've had to deal with in-season position changes.

Clowney has been listed as a DL everywhere but our league for most of the season.

[Burt the Butcher]

Between all the discussion points Mike brings up, I guess I am really not following what the decision was. If you can explain here what they decided in Frenzy, I think we should do same in SAC'd. If I need to manually make a position change, we should start a thread listing the players who need that to be changed, from what to what, and link showing justification (from whatever depth chart we are to use) - I am still in a whirlwind between unpacking, transferring addresses, finalizing bills from move, and starting back up work, that I will go with whatever Frenzy decides.

One note, on Clowney - you are saying he has been DL all season...I hope you do not want to have lineups adjusted from beginning of season?

[Liquid Swords]

Here's what Jim says (of course related to Ty Montgomery since there aren't any IDPs in Frenzy):

Well... despite the almost uniform agreement about the way the Frenzy has operated using MFL depth charts (which is correct)... if our rules state NFL team's depth charts I'm leaning towards honoring that. Clearly that needs to be corrected. But for this week (remainder of he season?), we probably should allow it if the Pack still marks him as a WR.

In response to Mike about Montgomery marked as RB by various sources:

I agree. But it looks like our rules state otherwise (at least in one place)... that's all I'm saying. But we need to close that loophole.

Final statement from Jim regarding the situation:

I am a HUGE intent of the rules (as opposed to letter of the rules) guy. It does appear that Montgomery has transitioned to RB. However, the NFL/MFL/Rotowirld depth chart issue isn't clear in our rules (though we NEED to clean that up immediately). I'm going to rule Montgomery is eligible to be played as a WR THIS WEEK. But I'll do more research by next week and may reverse this ruling for the remainder of the season. Thanks to both Mikes for presenting their cases.

From our rules:

6G. Starting Position

Players can only be inserted into a starting line-up at a position for which they are listed on their NFL teams depth chart.

EXAMPLE: Kam "BAM" Chancellor is listed as CB/WR and can be started at WR or CB in the league. If he is listed as CB but NOT as WR, then he cannot be played at WR.

NFL depth chart for Houston: http://www.nfl.com/teams/houstontexa...chart?team=HOU

Houston Texans depth chart: http://www.houstontexans.com/team/depth-chart.html

[Liquid Swords]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

One note, on Clowney - you are saying he has been DL all season...I hope you do not want to have lineups adjusted from beginning of season?

No, I've never started Clowney at any position this year.

[Burt the Butcher]

So Mike is saying we have and should use Rotoworld depth charts, and Jim is saying he will allow Montgomery at WR this week, but new ruling may come after some further research.

RotoWorld has Montgomery listed at RB and Clowney at DE. So maybe that is where my confusion is...if Jim is leaving Montgomery listed as WR this week, then my leaning would be to leave Clowney at LB this week also.

Or we go our own way, and I change both to be what Rotoworld depth charts are and change both manually.

Opinions from Rules committee? Bobby and Matt can chime in

[Bounty Hunter]

Since we use Rotoworld as "position officials" I don't have a problem making in season changes. However I believe it has to be a 2 way street in that if Rotoworld make another in season change (on the same player) we make the change also.

Another item to keep in mind is everyone needs to keep an eye out for changes that may not be obvious and make those changes. it's up to all of us to "protect the field" to assure no one gains an unfair competitive edge.

[Liquid Swords]

Since there really isn't a firm decision, I guess we leave Clowney as a LB for this week.

My argument was that Clowney has been listed as a DL for weeks and is listed as such on all sites. Montgomery was just listed as a RB on some sites this past week. Completely different circumstances.

[Burt the Butcher]

My feeling is, since MFL uses Rotoworld depth charts, we should stick with that. Also, since they do not update position during the season, we need to come up with something in the rules to go by to adjust position during season. I am thinking it should be up to each team to monitor their players, and if a player has been changed to another position on Rotoworld, they bring it to the commish's attention, and it gets changed at that time. Or really anyone can bring it up and it should be changed. Montgomery and Clowney are good examples - it seems to be to the teams benefit to have their position changed. But if they change back, then it should also be brought up even though would not be to their advantage. I had that same situation last year, when Arizona moved Buchannon to LB, but he was still listed as DB on MFL. Definitely was to my advantage to start him at DB rather than LB.

If someone wants to create a poll, we can vote on it this season, else bring it up next year.

[Liquid Swords]

I think it's pretty rare that we see these position changes during the season. Usually it's a move from CB to S or DE to DT, which still remain within our lineup requirements (DB, DL).

I was unaware of any last year - was Buchannon the only one? This year, I only know of Clowney and Montgomery. Have there been any others in recent memory?

Trying to think of ways to make this easier - is MFL able to at least notify us of any position changes that Rotoworld makes?

[Burt the Butcher]

Buchannon was only one I was aware of, and only because he was on my team. Let me put in a question to MFL to see if there is a way we can get notification of position change.

I still think we should go ahead and vote on it to just make it a rule, that is a players position changes mid season, we should adjust MFL.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Buchannon was only one I was aware of, and only because he was on my team. Let me put in a question to MFL to see if there is a way we can get notification of position change.

I still think we should go ahead and vote on it to just make it a rule, that is a players position changes mid season, we should adjust MFL.

I think it's pretty easy to self police. Teams are responsible to keep their cap and roster in line with the rules, they more than anyone should know when a position change has occurred.

I think all league teams can police it easily as well. Just supply evidence of the rotoworld position for whatever player on whomever's roster, and the player gets changed to that position until further notice. If rotoworld changes positions down the line the player would again get switched to whatever position it is.

[Burt the Butcher]

I have received response from MFL - they do not have any way to notify leagues of position changes - so yes Mike, it will need to be self governed.

[Liquid Swords]

Since Frenzy has decided to allow in-season position changes, are we going to do the same in SAC'D?

If so, we would need to adjust Ty Montgomery (Tommyknockers) from WR to RB and Jadeveon Clowney (36 Chambers) from LB to DL. I haven't seen any other position changes yet.

We will also need to keep an eye on Montgomery possibly switching back to WR.

[Burt the Butcher]

Sounds like we should

[Burt the Butcher]

I've adjusted Clowney. Not sure what to do with Montgomery, since Rotoworld has him listed at both RB and WR on the depth charts. He is still on TS, so maybe not an issue. But I think we should take this to a vote if we decide to carry these in season changes forward, and account for when they are listed at two positions. I do not think MFL allows for multi positions

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

I've adjusted Clowney. Not sure what to do with Montgomery, since Rotoworld has him listed at both RB and WR on the depth charts. He is still on TS, so maybe not an issue. But I think we should take this to a vote if we decide to carry these in season changes forward, and account for when they are listed at two positions. I do not think MFL allows for multi positions

Click on his profile page and Rotoworld lists Montgomery as RB.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Preds

Click on his profile page and Rotoworld lists Montgomery as RB.

His profile page isn't the depth chart

[Liquid Swords]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

I've adjusted Clowney. Not sure what to do with Montgomery, since Rotoworld has him listed at both RB and WR on the depth charts. He is still on TS, so maybe not an issue. But I think we should take this to a vote if we decide to carry these in season changes forward, and account for when they are listed at two positions. I do not think MFL allows for multi positions

Like I posted in Frenzy thread...since Montgomery is listed as both RB and WR, I'd lean more toward keeping him as WR which he was at beginning of season.

At least Clowney is clearly listed as DL and not LB.