Bloodsuckers and EcoWarriors Big Bang Trade on the 4th of July

[Flaxwless]

EcoWarriors Trade:

WR Braylon Edwards 2/1209
RB Reggie Bush 3/1398
DE Terrell Suggs 2/193
DB Kenny Philipps ?/130 (rookie)
= 2930/ 7 + ?

Bloodsuckers Trade:

WR Lee Evans 4/1496
RB Micheal Turner 3/402
DE Jason Taylor ?/380 (#4 DE in 2007)
LB DJ Williams 3/220 (#3 LB in 2007)
DB Richard Marshall ?/400 (#3 DB in 2007)
= 2898/ 10 + ?

Mutts to confirm followed by contract year assignments.

[Mutts]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

EcoWarriors Trade:

WR Braylon Edwards 2/1209
RB Reggie Bush 3/1398
DE Terrell Suggs 2/193
DB Kenny Philipps ?/130 (rookie)
= 2930/ 7 + ?

Bloodsuckers Trade:

WR Lee Evans 4/1496
RB Micheal Turner 3/402
DE Jason Taylor ?/380 (#4 DE in 2007)
LB DJ Williams 3/220 (#3 LB in 2007)
DB Richard Marshall ?/400 (#3 DB in 2007)
= 2898/ 10 + ?

Mutts to confirm followed by contract year assignments.

Deal. Assign Taylor and Marshall both 1 year salaries.

[Flaxwless]

Assign DB Kenny Phillips 3 year deal

[Philadelphia Freedom]

Looks more like when the US got Manhattan. What I am I missing here?

[pacificscrub]

I wanted to bang on the trade, but I think it's actually reasonably fair. Braylon is a stud, Bush is highly overrated and will only get you #15-20 RB points. Turner is unproven, but the unquestioned starter. Even against mainly 9 man fronts, he should get you #11-15 RB points. Lee Evans isn't as good as his numbers from 2 years ago, but Buffalo should air it out more this year and Edwards should improve with a year under his belt as starter. Bottom line is the improvement at WR vs. RB should balance out. If anything, I think Eco has the better upside in the long-term, but Flax gets the early nod.

[Mutts]

This was all about Turner for me - I value him very highly. Way beyond Bush, who was scaring the s*** out of me going into the season as someone I would have to depend on. Braylon has a volatility makeup even greater than Moss IMO. He'll likely put up stud numbers, but I always felt uncomfortable with him. I think Evans has a chance to become the WR everyone thought he'd be before last year. There's a new OC in charge and it looks promising. I hated giving up Philips, but in the end he's a defensive player and a DB at that. Even if he reaches his maximum potential, I can buy someone similar on the open market for 500-600cb. Taylor, Williams and Marshall give me a cheap veteren core at each D position, allowing me to let my young guys develop. Suggs has great potential, but I still have a good group at DE. Plus, I could dump a huge Ray Lewis contract without feeling that I'll lose much production. Finally, the flexibility of having 2 top tier, young RBs under cheap contracts for multiple years is really nice for the future.

IMO, this move positions the EcoWarriors to contend in 2008-09!

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Mutts

This was all about Turner for me - I value him very highly. Way beyond Bush, who was scaring the s*** out of me going into the season as someone I would have to depend on. Braylon has a volatility makeup even greater than Moss IMO. He'll likely put up stud numbers, but I always felt uncomfortable with him. I think Evans has a chance to become the WR everyone thought he'd be before last year. There's a new OC in charge and it looks promising. I hated giving up Philips, but in the end he's a defensive player and a DB at that. Even if he reaches his maximum potential, I can buy someone similar on the open market for 500-600cb. Taylor, Williams and Marshall give me a cheap veteren core at each D position, allowing me to let my young guys develop. Suggs has great potential, but I still have a good group at DE. Plus, I could dump a huge Ray Lewis contract without feeling that I'll lose much production. Finally, the flexibility of having 2 top tier, young RBs under cheap contracts for multiple years is really nice for the future.

IMO, this move positions the EcoWarriors to contend in 2008-09!

Funny cause I felt uncomfortable with having Lee Evans and Micheal Turner heading into the season. I just don't like Evans situation as a deep threat WR with a 2nd year QB with a weak arm.

As for Turner... he was the big unknown if he becomes a super stud RB I'll lose on this deal just due to the contract Turner has. You'd be able to keep him for the rest of his career for under 1000 each year. However, the Atlanta o-line is really poor and with the new head coach they have moved away from the zone blocking scheme that made them so successful in years past.

The only way I lose in this deal, IMO is if Turner becomes a consistent Top 12 RB and Evans becomes a Top 12 WR and Edwards drops to WR2 category. Otherwise, I expect Reggie Bush and Turner to be decent RB2 and Edwards to be a lock for Top 5 WR barring unforseen circumstance, which is more likely than Turner and Evans both becoming RB and WR #1.

[pacificscrub]

As is the case with most trades, I think both of you are looking at things through rose colored glasses. Edwards' biggest drawbacks are the combination of Winslow/Lewis stealing points and the possibility of Anderson coming back to earth (which I hope he doesn't since I traded for him!). I've never seen anything to make me think he's in the same zipcode as Moss or TO in headcase terms. Bush is a marginal #2 RB. He'll win you some games, but he'll also go on a streak of 3-4 games where he gets you single digit points...if he can stay healthy enough to play that many games in a row.

Turner has an O-line being made from scratch in front of him and no real passing game to speak of to keep defenses honest, so this is basically a throw away year for him. Who knows how ATL will shape up by the end of the season? I'd love to see Evans morph back into a true #1 and I think he has the potential to do that once James Hardy or someone starts taking some of the coverage off of him, but that depends largely on how Edwards does this season and if Buffalo's O-coord actually opens up the offense like they're saying they will. Again, you're still looking at mid-season before you can expect to see decent returns on Evans and that's the best-case scenario.

Bottom line is that neither of you is going to be truly competitive this season and there are a lot of ifs to be proven true before we see anything close to the returns you both seem certain will occurr.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by pacificscrub

As is the case with most trades, I think both of you are looking at things through rose colored glasses. Edwards' biggest drawbacks are the combination of Winslow/Lewis stealing points and the possibility of Anderson coming back to earth (which I hope he doesn't since I traded for him!). I've never seen anything to make me think he's in the same zipcode as Moss or TO in headcase terms. Bush is a marginal #2 RB. He'll win you some games, but he'll also go on a streak of 3-4 games where he gets you single digit points...if he can stay healthy enough to play that many games in a row.

Turner has an O-line being made from scratch in front of him and no real passing game to speak of to keep defenses honest, so this is basically a throw away year for him. Who knows how ATL will shape up by the end of the season? I'd love to see Evans morph back into a true #1 and I think he has the potential to do that once James Hardy or someone starts taking some of the coverage off of him, but that depends largely on how Edwards does this season and if Buffalo's O-coord actually opens up the offense like they're saying they will. Again, you're still looking at mid-season before you can expect to see decent returns on Evans and that's the best-case scenario.

Bottom line is that neither of you is going to be truly competitive this season and there are a lot of ifs to be proven true before we see anything close to the returns you both seem certain will occurr.

Not competitive? Hahaha...

How's this starting line up?

QB David Garrard avg 23 ppg - Now his 2nd year as starter with an upgraded WR corps

RB1 Jamal Lewis - Was a Top 5 RB... should continue to do the same.
RB2 - Ernest Graham, Reggie Bush, Brandon Jacobs - not true studs, but more than capable of keep pace with most teams RB2.

WR1a - Randy Moss - 'Nuff Said.
WR1b - Steve Smith - Delhomme is back, Moose + DJ Hackett to relieve pressure.
WR1c - Braylon Edwards - Young stud WR in a high powered offense returning intact.

TE Tony Scheffler - A solid TE... should be able to keep pace with most TEs, but the elite.

K - Who cares

DL Patrick Kearney #2 DE
DL Terrell Suggs #9 DE

LB Will Witherspoon - #12 LB
LB Nick Barnett - #5 LB

DB Sean Jones - #12
DB Gibril Wilson - #13

My defense is one of the best in the league and my offense should be up there as well.

[pacificscrub]

You may be right, but you're fooling yourself if you think Jamal is going to have the same numbers as last year (even with that great young O-line). Moss was completely shut down the final four games of last season. Teams know step one to holding that offense in check is stopping him, so he's not going to get 20 tds this year, much less 28. Don't get me wrong, I still like the guy, but when has a player ever had a season like that for his position and been in the top 5 the next? Smith? I like Delhomme, but no QB has EVER successfully come back from Tommy John. I'll believe it when I see it. Garrard is good, but you may need him to be great to make the playoffs.