Move WR Brandon Tate (NE) to IR - REQUEST RECINDED

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Now that we're in the IR period... he's listed on the Physically unable to perform list for the Patriots. Week one injury lists haven't come out yet, but the PUP list should suffice.

The question I have... the rules state that half of his salary counts against whatever cap he's on for the time he's on the IR (active roster or TS). I'd like to keep his TS status. Can that still be done?

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Okay... help me think this out.
The rules don't state it clearly... but I'm guessing in order to place a player on IR, there needs to be a spot on either the active or taxi squads, right? So... since the official deadline for roster declarations comes at 11:59pm tonight... and we can declare IR players at midnight last night (well, this morning!)... can I cut a current TS player and put Tate in. Then can I move him to IR... and fill his spot with another rookie (as long as the years still fit within the 20 limit minus one (for the one year of cap credit granted to every IR player)). OR... do I have to leave a slot open in the TS squad?

If the deadline for IR declarations was midnight tomorrow, then it would be much clearer. You'd have to have to make your roster declarations first, then put any players on IR.

But this appears to be a unique situation.

Thoughts? Opinions?

I'm not trying to cheat... just use the system the way it's currently written.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Or here's another question about this whole thing...

Say I decide NOT to put him on the TS... but make room for him on the active roster. So I cut someone from the active roster... and then immediately move him to IR. Let's say he stays the entire year on the IR. Next season, if I wanted to put him back on the TS squad (since he's still eligible), what's the salary penalty? He was only active prior to week one... so does that mean one week? Or would he get charged the entire 16 week penalty?

Even if I wasn't the owner, my first inclination would be a one week penalty... since he was only active for the first week.

But again, this is all rules interpretation.

Thoughts on this?

[Burt the Butcher]

Holy Moley!! not sure I even understand all the scenarios...the whole idea behind not opening up the IR until after we declare contracts was to prevent this type of shuffling I would think. Looks like a loophole...I know in SAC'd you have to pay them a minimum of one week penalty - so I'll assume it is same for Frenzy. Although I feel that you need to have room on either active or TS to place him there either way....I don't think you should be able to put him on IR, then place him on TS...you should have room there first, then put him on IR...so moving him to Active Roster, placing him on IR, then moving him to TS seems against the intent of the rule. But I am just going off my initial thoughts on this, not on the rules as they are written.

I'll try to read the rules more closely, but I would think this would not be a fair use of the IR - place a player in IR, then pick up a replacement - not the other way around

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Burt... the rules state that IR DOES open up before roster declarations are due.
So, can I declare Tate on the active roster... release a current active player... then put him on IR... and still make the rest of my declarations tonight?

Or are we saying that we cannot move any RFA/UFA/rookie onto the IR until after the declaration deadline? In which case, we should rewrite the rules to reflect that. Does the Frenzy have different rules than SAC'D in this? I read & re-read our rules numerous times...

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

Burt... the rules state that IR DOES open up before roster declarations are due.
So, can I declare Tate on the active roster... release a current active player... then put him on IR... and still make the rest of my declarations tonight?

Or are we saying that we cannot move any RFA/UFA/rookie onto the IR until after the declaration deadline? In which case, we should rewrite the rules to reflect that. Does the Frenzy have different rules than SAC'D in this? I read & re-read our rules numerous times...

This is my understanding and how I would like the rule to be interpreted, but I believe in the past we have allowed players to go directly onto the TS. I did not agree with it then and still feel it is cheating the system.

I feel you should have to make room for the player on a squad and THEN place them on IR the following day.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

That's what I thought the rule was... but the more I looked, the more I realized that's not how it's currently written.

[Burt the Butcher]

That may be true, that you can put a player on IR before you have to declare contracts, but you still have to follow cap restrictions and max player limits correct? My take is you can only place players who are on your roster onto the IR - I am not finding anything specifically stating that, but doesn't that make sense? Otherwise, what is to prevent us from picking up a FA who is out for 2 weeks, even though we have 18 players already, and just place him straight on IR, thus not requiring a cut?

And I appreciate you putting this out for discussion Jim.

Just seems like a loophole to me....do we have a rules committee to make a ruling?

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

You always have to have a player on your roster before moving him to the IR.
That's a given.

But can I, say... cut QB Matt Hasselbeck today. And declare that Brandon Tate will be on the active roster (with contract years). Then immediately move him to the IR, thus freeing up an active roster space... so when I declare the REST of my contracts tonight, I can fill that slot?

AND THEN... when we get to the end of the season, and all IR players have to come off the IR... if I want to move him to the TS squad (since I drafted him), does he count as ONE WEEK ACTIVE... or an entire season active?

OR... are we saying that UNTIL THE 11:59PM DEADLINE PASSES, no UFAs/RFAs/Rookies can be placed on the IR?

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

And I don't know if we have an active rules committee. Anyone know?

[Burt the Butcher]

If you put a player on Active roster, then Active IR, then they remain a part of the active roster until you place them otherwise...thus if he is on Active IR for the entire season, and then you move him back down to TS next year, he should be subject to 16 weeks of increase and contract becomes guarunteed.

The IR opens before you have to declare contracts, so you cut, assign and place IR scenario is correct. At least that is how I interpret it. I think that deadline was to prevent you signing FA's that were out for the season, and getting half their cap space back to sign more FA's (I know, since I did this when Winslow did his Evil Knevil, and Mike let me know his entire contract counted until the IR opened up)

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

So the only way I can put a rookie on the TS and then move him to the IR... would be to ensure that he's on my TS squad at the 11:59 deadline tonight... THEN move him to the IR... which would leave one slot open in my TS squad for the remainder of this year... correct?

Makes sense.

But we'll need to rewrite or clarify the rules.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

With this in mind... I withdraw my request to put Tate on the IR.

Anyone want to trade for him prior to tonight's cut deadline? He's TS eligible!!!

[Liquid Swords]

I agree with Frank on this. I never really thought of it because the case has never applied to me. This is definitely a rule that we need to address.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

I agree with Frank on this. I never really thought of it because the case has never applied to me. This is definitely a rule that we need to address.

Seems to me we can fix it by delaying the start of "IR season" until 1 day after the roster declarations are made.

[Burt the Butcher]

Rookie declarations are not official until the day after IR opens up, so you still have to have room on either TS or PS to assign a rookie before placing him on the IR - so I don't see that this rule has a loophole needing to be filled..You can't put Tate on the TS, then IR, then assign your last rookie to TS...you still would not have room for him until after all rookies were declared...

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Burt... I see. That's right. Then we don't need to change it. Thanks.