2006 Draft Order (unconfirmed)

I think Jim would be great as an arbitrator.


Anyone have an objection to either Jim or the idea of having an arbitrator make the call?

[Burt the Butcher]

I have an FBG membership (did me a lot of good, eh?). I'll check to see if they have an ask the commish feature and report back.....

[Liquid Swords]

Doggler seems to like to throw a comment out here and there so he might be worth asking also.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

Doggler seems to like to throw a comment out here and there so he might be worth asking also.

Doggler doesn't know jack.....:idiot

doggler never learned that it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool then to open your mouth and confirm it.









j/k - he would be fine by me as an arbitrator if burt reports back that FBG doesn't have a ask the commish feature.

maybe a 3 person team to look at it - jim, dogz and ???

i'd recommend cheezy, but he is one of my alias' and friends with me and one of my other alias' (rami).

[Burt the Butcher]

Sent off the email to Ask The Commish...I'll report what their reply is...Is this what everyone wants to go with? Sounds good to me, but I am not affected either way. Seems to be more logical, being that they would be totally non-biased, and the others mentioned are always on the board, so may have leanings one way or the other based on the other leagues they are in. But either way would be fine with me

rules committe/commish should chime in.

can they live with whatever the FBG ask the commish comes back with.

[The Immortal Ramirez]

I'm fine with whatever the 'outside' party decides.

[Nittany Dodgers]

For the record, I have no personal preference of how the ties be broken. My only preference is that the Frenzy and SAC'D agree for simplicity sake.

I am proposing the outside arbitrator determine this years tie breaks then in the off season we come up with the official go forward method.

[Mutts]

I think FBGs is a solid source of an opinion. I also would feel very confident with the decision in Jim's hands.

[Burt the Butcher]

Got a reply from FBG, but he wanted more info, so I sent him a link to our Scores and Standings page. Should have a full ruling sometime tomorrow I would imagine....

[Burt the Butcher]

So, do we all agree to go with FBG's ruling? I got their reply, so I can post it as soon as ya'all want....

[Liquid Swords]

Sounds fair to me

[Nittany Dodgers]

No objections from me.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Mutts

I think FBGs is a solid source of an opinion. I also would feel very confident with the decision in Jim's hands.

I'm a FBG hater these days, but I'm not involved in the ties and don't care how we break them. I think the teams involved are the only consent you need.

For future years, I really like Matt's suggestion to use All Play records then total points, and throw h2h out entirely.

im a fbg hater too (except for the ffa) but i think they can give an unbiased opinion.

i think using all play and points is a good idea. it really shows who sucked it up and needs the better pick

[Burt the Butcher]

OK, well since no one has objected, here is the ruling from FBG. The 4-1 picks are, of course, still to be determined based on playoff outcome:
=================================================
This is kind of a bizarre set of circumstances. Since you have no rules in place and are asking me to pick a set arbitrarily, I am going to suggest you use the NFL’s rules. During the offseason, review our exhaustive article on ties: http://apps.footballguys.com/04davies_kissing.cfm. (Burt's comment: I can look at this if you all want, and post this in another thread?)

This means that my ruling is the Eco Warriors draft before the Gunslingers by virtue of losing to them in the head-to-head.
The 6-8 ties are a little more complicated. With 3 or more teams, one team is selected as the winner and then you start over at the beginning. (In this case the team that drafts last of the three.) The head-to-head in a 3-way-tie must involve a sweep. That did not happen. The second tie breaker has to do with best record in the conference. You have one conference, do it doesn’t apply. The next few tie-breakers are pretty much NFL-league specific and do not apply. The following tiebreaker is best NET points. That is PF less PA. You have given me PF, but that’s it. If I had PA, I could probably render a decision.
Can you give me the complete standings and week-by-week results for your league?
================================================== ===
(Burt's comment: I then sent him a link to our Scores and Standings page)
Burt,
OK, here you go:
Official 2006 Draft Order
1 Eco Warriors (2-12; lost to GG)
2 Glenside Gulslinger (2-12; won over EW)
3 Falcon Floyds (5-9)
4 Maplewood Mountain Lions (6-8; lost to Disciples of the 36 hambers)
5 Disciples of the 26 Chambers (6-8; lost to Maplewood Mountain Lions)
6 Bay Area Bloodsuckers (6-8; most NET points of tied teams)
7 Jawbone Hill (7-7)
8 Buffalo Pitbulls (8-6)
9 Valencia Vibe (9-5)
10 Good Grief (10-4)
11 Subzero (11-3)
12 Chagrin Falls D.M.K.M. Snow (12-2)

[Mutts]

Originally Posted by Preds

I'm a FBG hater these days, but I'm not involved in the ties and don't care how we break them. I think the teams involved are the only consent you need.

For future years, I really like Matt's suggestion to use All Play records then total points, and throw h2h out entirely.

Its interesting that all the old-school footballguys have all started to turn on them. I'm with you - this is the first year in a long time I haven't paid for a subscription.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Since we've decided how to break the ties, in the future, I hate the all play records for tie breakers. The whole fun of fantasy football is the individual weekly games. Making them important is what is fun. Does anyone here play in a league where the winner is the team who has accumulated the most points over the course of the season? Does anyone play in a leauge where the top half of the scorers get wins, while the bottom half get losses? I'd bet not, but if anyone does, I'd also bet it is not the most fun league you are in. The whole fun of FF is playing H2H, and the importance of those games should carry over. If two teams are tied, the first tie breaker should always be what happened when those teams played each other. What we do after that, I care less about, but getting rid of H2H as a tie breaker is ludicrous IMHO.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Since we've decided how to break the ties, in the future, I hate the all play records for tie breakers. The whole fun of fantasy football is the individual weekly games. Making them important is what is fun. Does anyone here play in a league where the winner is the team who has accumulated the most points over the course of the season? Does anyone play in a leauge where the top half of the scorers get wins, while the bottom half get losses? I'd bet not, but if anyone does, I'd also bet it is not the most fun league you are in. The whole fun of FF is playing H2H, and the importance of those games should carry over. If two teams are tied, the first tie breaker should always be what happened when those teams played each other. What we do after that, I care less about, but getting rid of H2H as a tie breaker is ludicrous IMHO.

Brian,

The NFL actually tosses out h2h and goes straight to strength of schedule when it comes to tie breakers for draft picks (whether it be 2 teams tied or 10).

The NFL system for draft pick tiebreakers uses strength of schedule 1st, with the weaker schedules getting higher picks. The team with the weakest schedule gets the highest pick in the 1st round, in the 2nd round, they move to the end of the list with the tied teams, and every other team moves up. This process proceeds for each round.

I think the All Play is a good reflection of strength of schedule, or at a minimum the strength or weaknesses of each team.

Finally, my local 14 team league DOES award wins and losses to the top half and bottom half scoring teams each week, these wins and losses are in addition to our h2h schedule. It's a very difficult, challenging league, and the split wins or losses and h2h helps mitigate some of the luck factor. I like the system quite a bit actually, and it IS a fun league.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Mutts

Its interesting that all the old-school footballguys have all started to turn on them. I'm with you - this is the first year in a long time I haven't paid for a subscription.

FBG's info deteriorates each year, and their holier than thou attitude gets old quickly. FBG has turned into a quantity over quality site.

I still like the boards for real-time info, but you have to wade through a lot of shit. The FFA is actually their most attractive feature these days, and the way their nazi modding it, they may kill the only good thing they have left.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Preds

Brian,

The NFL actually tosses out h2h and goes straight to strength of schedule when it comes to tie breakers for draft picks (whether it be 2 teams tied or 10).

The NFL system for draft pick tiebreakers uses strength of schedule 1st, with the weaker schedules getting higher picks. The team with the weakest schedule gets the highest pick in the 1st round, in the 2nd round, they move to the end of the list with the tied teams, and every other team moves up. This process proceeds for each round.

I think the All Play is a good reflection of strength of schedule, or at a minimum the strength or weaknesses of each team.

Finally, my local 14 team league DOES award wins and losses to the top half and bottom half scoring teams each week, these wins and losses are in addition to our h2h schedule. It's a very difficult, challenging league, and the split wins or losses and h2h helps mitigate some of the luck factor. I like the system quite a bit actually, and it IS a fun league.

Well, things are back to normal, and we disagree, on just about all counts of this post.

[Liquid Swords]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Since we've decided how to break the ties, in the future, I hate the all play records for tie breakers. The whole fun of fantasy football is the individual weekly games. Making them important is what is fun. Does anyone here play in a league where the winner is the team who has accumulated the most points over the course of the season? Does anyone play in a leauge where the top half of the scorers get wins, while the bottom half get losses? I'd bet not, but if anyone does, I'd also bet it is not the most fun league you are in. The whole fun of FF is playing H2H, and the importance of those games should carry over. If two teams are tied, the first tie breaker should always be what happened when those teams played each other. What we do after that, I care less about, but getting rid of H2H as a tie breaker is ludicrous IMHO.

[Mutts]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

also

[Philadelphia Freedom]

Looks like we will have an interesting vote at some point in the next couple of months!

[Preds]

FYI... I'll repeat that the NFL does NOT use h2h for draft order tiebreakers... they use STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE. I think we should emulate that. It wouldn't be that hard to addup the wins and losses of all 12 teams and determine our own strength of schedule.

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakers

TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURE FOR SELECTION MEETING
If two or more clubs are tied in the selection order, the strength-of-schedule tie breaker is applied, subject to the following exceptions for playoff clubs:

1. The Super Bowl winner is last and the Super Bowl loser next-to-last.
2. Any non-Super Bowl playoff club involved in a tie shall be assigned priority within its segment below that of non-playoff clubs and in the order that the playoff clubs exited from the playoffs. Thus, within a tied segment a playoff club that loses in the Wild-Card game will have priority over a playoff club that loses in the Divisional playoff game, which in turn will have priority over a club that loses in the Conference Championship game. If two tied clubs exited the playoffs in the same round, the tie is broken by strength of schedule.

If any ties cannot be broken by strength of schedule, the divisional or conference tie breakers, whichever are applicable, are applied. Any ties that still exist are broken by a coin flip.

[Burt the Butcher]

With 32 teams, trying to mix in h2h would seem to be more of a headache than it's worth for the NFL, especially since half of most teams games are within thier own division. I can see why they would not try to use it as a tie-breaker when determining drafting order. With only 12 teams, we should be able to use it more easily if we decide that is what the masses want.

[randilover]

Late to the conversation, but I'd thought I'd weight in. Would h2h percentage work? That's how we do it in the league Freedom and I are in together. (Ask him who won this year too...)

I'm with Burt and Brian though. How could you not use h2h first? We had a guy in my other league who through like week 8 ior 9 was near the bottom in head to head but was first in teh division. Why should that guy get a better draft than me if let's say I was third in my division but with more points. I get the reasoning that less points scored means you suck, but your h2h is the determining factor first, IMO.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by randilover

Late to the conversation, but I'd thought I'd weight in. Would h2h percentage work? That's how we do it in the league Freedom and I are in together. (Ask him who won this year too...)

I'm with Burt and Brian though. How could you not use h2h first? We had a guy in my other league who through like week 8 ior 9 was near the bottom in head to head but was first in teh division. Why should that guy get a better draft than me if let's say I was third in my division but with more points. I get the reasoning that less points scored means you suck, but your h2h is the determining factor first, IMO.

Not sure what you are trying to say with your last statement there, but overall record would still be used unless 2 teams are tied...so a first place team would never draft before a 3rd place team without a trade, regardless of H2H record or total points.