2008 SAC'd RFA Commentary

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

No, I agreed with both Ben's posting, and Pred's posting....

Agreeing with both postings is the same as agreeing with and disagreeing with Ben's postings, so I think the answer you were looking for was 'yes.'

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

Here's some advice:

Bid up players that would put you in cap hell even if you win just a fraction of them. Then start dumping the young talent to make room, take a few cap hits on infractions, and voila...you can challenge for a championship this year! Who cares about building for the future...just ask Brian...it doesn't work.

Hmmm...maybe I shoud heed my own advice or maybe just lay off the

This guy KNOWS STUFF.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

Here's some advice:

Bid up players that would put you in cap hell even if you win just a fraction of them. Then start dumping the young talent to make room, take a few cap hits on infractions, and voila...you can challenge for a championship this year! Who cares about building for the future...just ask Brian...it doesn't work.

Hmmm...maybe I shoud heed my own advice or maybe just lay off the

Maybe building for the future would work if you don't draft in such a way as to make Matt Millen look like a genius by comparison.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Maybe building for the future would work if you don't draft in such a way as to make Matt Millen look like a genius by comparison.

ADP could have been yours for Lynch and a 1st...

;)

[benm3218]

Originally Posted by Preds

ADP could have been yours for Lynch and a 1st...

;)

Don't you wish time travel was possible?

[Preds]

Originally Posted by benm3218

Don't you wish time travel was possible?

As in my old team back? Nah. I'll laugh at Geeks as he ruins the championship calibur team I left him.

[Flaxwless]

Ha love the advice in this thread. I actually was gonna post why I thought signing LT to boatloads of money was more prohibitive to a rebuilding team, but I figured I'd let the noobs suffer and Burt as well.

[Shader]

I think my strategy is going to be to absolutely dominate and wipe the floor with any team I come into contact with. That has usually worked for me in the past.

[pacificscrub]

Oh please enlighten us Flax! Considering you seem to think returning owners are noobs, I'm just dying to hear what your opinion is on rebuilding teams.

[Preds]

Dear GEEKS

You sir, are a dick.

Brett/Preds OUT


editorial note... this comment is entirely related to the late late late bump of Witten (8 minutes before sale)

[pacificscrub]

Originally Posted by Preds

Dear GEEKS

You sir, are a dick.

Brett/Preds OUT


editorial note... this comment is entirely related to the late late late bump of Witten (8 minutes before sale)

lol Shouldn't that be my line since I was the high bidder up to that point?

[Preds]

Originally Posted by pacificscrub

lol Shouldn't that be my line since I was the high bidder up to that point?

No, because you weren't getting him if you won.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by pacificscrub

Oh please enlighten us Flax! Considering you seem to think returning owners are noobs, I'm just dying to hear what your opinion is on rebuilding teams.

We play to win a championship, but unless you are an RB away from contention LT is a bigger burden than help. Why? So your team sucks and you blow your wad signing LT... your team will either become mediocre or is an LT injury away from sucking once again.

Look what type of team it took to win with LT last year?

Tom Brady

LT

Chad Johnson
Reggie Wayne
Plaxico Burress
Wes Welker

Kellen Winslow

That's still a whole shitload of studs surrounding LT. If you're a bad team #1) you don't have that many studs #2) if you signed'd LT as it seems now you'll be blowing half your cap on him, so you won't be able to amass more talent around LT.

Sure LT will improve your team... to a mediocre team. His salary hinders your ability to sign FA and make trades. You sign LT he either stays on your team or gets put on IR/gets cut b/c it would be tough to trade 7k to a championship contender or team making a playoff push and bad teams would shy away b/c why rent a player?

Basically he ruins your flexibility when as a rebuilding team, that's the most important thing: flexibility.

If I were a rebuilding team... I would go after RFA/UFA players that are probably the middle tier guys or people you feel will outperform their salary.... not guys that will underperform their salary.

That way during the course of the season you have possible trading piece (middle tier guy) or a value player that you can build around.

Then once you acquire enough value players, that's when you overspend on a big puppy like LT.

That's what I would do.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

We play to win a championship, but unless you are an RB away from contention LT is a bigger burden than help. Why? So your team sucks and you blow your wad signing LT... your team will either become mediocre or is an LT injury away from sucking once again.

Look what type of team it took to win with LT last year?

Tom Brady

LT

Chad Johnson
Reggie Wayne
Plaxico Burress
Wes Welker

Kellen Winslow

That's still a whole shitload of studs surrounding LT. If you're a bad team #1) you don't have that many studs #2) if you signed'd LT as it seems now you'll be blowing half your cap on him, so you won't be able to amass more talent around LT.

Sure LT will improve your team... to a mediocre team. His salary hinders your ability to sign FA and make trades. You sign LT he either stays on your team or gets put on IR/gets cut b/c it would be tough to trade 7k to a championship contender or team making a playoff push and bad teams would shy away b/c why rent a player?

Basically he ruins your flexibility when as a rebuilding team, that's the most important thing: flexibility.

If I were a rebuilding team... I would go after RFA/UFA players that are probably the middle tier guys or people you feel will outperform their salary.... not guys that will underperform their salary.

That way during the course of the season you have possible trading piece (middle tier guy) or a value player that you can build around.

Then once you acquire enough value players, that's when you overspend on a big puppy like LT.

That's what I would do.

Very

[pacificscrub]

Wow. So you mean it's good to get guys that outperform their salary and undervalued guys? Thank you captain obvious.

I can't decide whether you oversimplify more or spend more time dealing in theory rather than reality. We're already a mediocre team, hence the 5th pick in the draft rather than a top 2 pick. Maybe if we'd blatantly tanked the last four games like some of our opponents did last year we'd be closer to that, but I digress. We've already begun reshaping an old and mediocre team into a young team with a lot of the "P" word.

As far as "blowing half our cap" on LT, with 12k to spend, that still leaves us with enough to purchase one or two mid-tier/undervalued players and sign our rookies and FAs. Plus it's not like there are a ton of those guys available each off season. While we all like pointing out each other's flaws and gaffs, all in all we've got a competent group of owners who won't let too many of those players fall through the cracks. In fact, that's what we were looking for in Julius Jones (you still suck Needles!). Just like you identified Jamal Lewis as that guy, we targeted JJ as our undervalued player. We won't know until the end of the season if either of our choices was accurate, but that's what makes this so fun. Likewise even if you win the bidding on a guy without overspending, his last owner is going to match the majority of the time anyway. That in itself is a major reason why overbidding on certain players is required if you want any hope of actually getting them on your roster.

From the flexibility standpoint, even if we'd won LT for 6k and Burt had a brainfart and didn't match, it's not like anyone would have the cap space to deal for him anyway. So lets say we don't go after him and instead chase Thomas Jones and a mid-tier wideout and AGAIN against all odds they aren't matched. I have to hope that one or both do well enough this year to entice a trade by a contender AND they have the available cap space to deal for them AND they are willing to part with someone I actually want. Flexibility is a great buzzword, but you're not dealing with reality. If there were guys I thought would fit your description and I needed the money to get them, then of course I wouldn't keep bidding on LT, but I just haven't seen a prospect beyond JJ that fits. On the other hand we only have one mid-tier prospective RFA for next season and a ton of cap space that in all likelihood won't be used this season. The way I see it, I'm using cap space that would otherwise go to waste to gain myself draft points in the 2009 draft.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by pacificscrub

Wow. So you mean it's good to get guys that outperform their salary and undervalued guys? Thank you captain obvious.

I can't decide whether you oversimplify more or spend more time dealing in theory rather than reality. We're already a mediocre team, hence the 5th pick in the draft rather than a top 2 pick. Maybe if we'd blatantly tanked the last four games like some of our opponents did last year we'd be closer to that, but I digress. We've already begun reshaping an old and mediocre team into a young team with a lot of the "P" word.

As far as "blowing half our cap" on LT, with 12k to spend, that still leaves us with enough to purchase one or two mid-tier/undervalued players and sign our rookies and FAs. Plus it's not like there are a ton of those guys available each off season. While we all like pointing out each other's flaws and gaffs, all in all we've got a competent group of owners who won't let too many of those players fall through the cracks. In fact, that's what we were looking for in Julius Jones (you still suck Needles!). Just like you identified Jamal Lewis as that guy, we targeted JJ as our undervalued player. We won't know until the end of the season if either of our choices was accurate, but that's what makes this so fun. Likewise even if you win the bidding on a guy without overspending, his last owner is going to match the majority of the time anyway. That in itself is a major reason why overbidding on certain players is required if you want any hope of actually getting them on your roster.

From the flexibility standpoint, even if we'd won LT for 6k and Burt had a brainfart and didn't match, it's not like anyone would have the cap space to deal for him anyway. So lets say we don't go after him and instead chase Thomas Jones and a mid-tier wideout and AGAIN against all odds they aren't matched. I have to hope that one or both do well enough this year to entice a trade by a contender AND they have the available cap space to deal for them AND they are willing to part with someone I actually want. Flexibility is a great buzzword, but you're not dealing with reality. If there were guys I thought would fit your description and I needed the money to get them, then of course I wouldn't keep bidding on LT, but I just haven't seen a prospect beyond JJ that fits. On the other hand we only have one mid-tier prospective RFA for next season and a ton of cap space that in all likelihood won't be used this season. The way I see it, I'm using cap space that would otherwise go to waste to gain myself draft points in the 2009 draft.

Fair enough.

As for the Top 2 pick... the #2 pick isn't mine. I traded for it.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

I have to admit I thought Frank was a little crazy with this deal for Moss:

http://www.predsff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11936

2008: 3190
2009: 3509

Not the deal so much (that I thought was a good move) but the 3 reneg which tied him up for 3190 this year and then 3509 next year.

Had I realized how much WR's would be going for (I think last year Holt was the high man with 3,300) I think I might have given more consideration to franchising him.

FWIW, I know the WR #'s are not quite a RB level yet but it seems like the Top 10 WR's are going to be a lot closer to the Top RB's this year. It was 3,800 for the RB's in 2007 and 2639 for the WR's. I am guessing LT and a few of the other RB's will keep the RB # up there but I think the WR number is going to be a lot closer to 3K.

Yes, I am bumping my own post (seems like it got lost in a bit of a :pissing: contest). Can someone explain to me why this year there seems to be so much more RFA money? Did the turnover of owners cause the new owners to cut a bunch of players? The salaries for WR's and even some RB's and TE's seems to be astronomical compared to past years.

I am just curious as to what might be the driver to this sort of change. I know some of you have to be wondering the same thing (unless of course you know the answer and if so please share it here). TIA.

[Flaxwless]

n00bs + very bad teams + boatloads of capspace + limited RFAs = jump in prices






Also people are underestimating the impact of rookie salaries, renegotiation, and franchising. Which makes getting DRAFTED young talent impossible to hit the FA market.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

n00bs + very bad teams + boatloads of capspace + limited RFAs = jump in prices

It ain't just the noobs driving up prices...

[benm3218]

So Housh is pending per Attack. Is that Preds team? MAKE YOUR DECISION SLOW POKE.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by benm3218

So Housh is pending per Attack. Is that Preds team? MAKE YOUR DECISION SLOW POKE.

He has until 8:09pm Eastern Sunday to make a decision. You have until 10:03pm Sunday to decide on AJ...settle young whippersnapper.....

[Preds]

Originally Posted by benm3218

So Housh is pending per Attack. Is that Preds team? MAKE YOUR DECISION SLOW POKE.

slow down n00b... I'll take my sweet ole time just to make you sweat it out.

See ya Sunday night.

;)

[benm3218]

Originally Posted by Preds

slow down n00b... I'll take my sweet ole time just to make you sweat it out.

See ya Sunday night.

;)

[Shader]

Hey Ben quit delaying things and go ahead and give me Andre Johnson. Thanks in advance.

[benm3218]

Originally Posted by Shader

Hey Ben quit delaying things and go ahead and give me Andre Johnson. Thanks in advance.

It all depends on Housh and Preds...

[Shader]

Oh quit, you know you're going to let me have him. I guess I'll have to start bidding up your other players.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Agreeing with both postings is the same as agreeing with and disagreeing with Ben's postings, so I think the answer you were looking for was 'yes.'

Huh? That makes no sense at all....

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Huh? That makes no sense at all....

You quoted Ben's posting saying "good posting." Mike then quotes Ben's posting saying "wrong." You then quoted Mike's "wrong" again saying "good posting." They can't both be good postings.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

You quoted Ben's posting saying "good posting." Mike then quotes Ben's posting saying "wrong." You then quoted Mike's "wrong" again saying "good posting." They can't both be good postings.

Well I thought they both were good postings...which one are you saying was a bad posting?

[Shader]

Lots of bids set to expire today....This should get interesting.